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Keep debate civil

May 31, 2013

To the editor: On the eve of Memorial Day weekend, I sat and reflected....

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(42)

onlythetruth

May-31-13 6:42 AM

I agree with your request for civility. However, the true test of freedom of speech is when someone states something you disagree with,no matter how vile or distasteful it may be, they have the right to state it. That is when it becomes imperative we bite out lip and remember there are indeed freedoms we enjoy that others do not.

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JJSully

May-31-13 6:56 AM

You have always been one who supported freedom of speech, as long as that speech agrees with your opinion. Call to Arms has many meanings. It is the right of the citizens to expect their elected officials to represent all of the citizens, noy just city workers and union thugs. Open your eyes if you want to see, of course we both know you don't want to do that.

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onlythetruth

May-31-13 7:03 AM

JJ, your hypocrisy is showing. Those you support spent their days in power trying to muzzle the freedom of speech of anyone who disagreed with them. They did everything from shutting citizens down at the podium, to issuing "Gag" orders while they enjoyed power.

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1sandy

May-31-13 10:40 AM

@JJSully: This point of view is what brought the RAG's down in the last election. Like the GOP, you must change or face the wrath of the voters again this coming election. Go ahead, spread your vile rhetoric because those of us who fought the Rag's, pray that you's continue your dispicable ways both in action and in print.

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certainsmile

May-31-13 1:11 PM

"you's"??? Now that's a true abuse of speech! It must be a joke as no one should be that ignorant of the English language.

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lightswitch

May-31-13 1:29 PM

onlythetruth does not remember the days of mayor Butler. He through out Impolitco.

The prior mayor John Sullivan was more than liberal with letting speakers speak and not disrupt the overall council meetings. See Cape TV for proof.

However he did throw out Impolitico as well after several outbursts from the audience. Also on Cape TV as source of what transpired.

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Jesuaph

May-31-13 1:30 PM

"Disgruntled citizens" is what made this nation. It was them who first fought and died so the rest of us can speak our minds. The legacy of their stand was carried out by generations past and has made this a great Nation. It is your thinking that will cause our downfall and promote violence from those who are silenced. History can repeat!

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lightswitch

May-31-13 2:42 PM

I meant current when speaking of mayor Sullivan and will restate he has been the most patient with those who approach the podium at the council meetings!

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lightswitch

May-31-13 2:52 PM

I also feel pretty sure after the utility tax and the fire assessment tax is levied on the October monthly bills on OCTOBER 1st. He will be re elected to rescind that tax.

Hopefully he champions the whereabouts of the $29 million dollars of the fire dept. budget and fights this non advalorem tax as well!

Repeal and create a budget within the proper revenue disciplines. Like the responsible communities in the nation.

Cape Coral is out of control!

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linda53

May-31-13 7:43 PM

It will be kept as civil as Leetz and Sullivan allows it to be.Its already out there that B Dile,E. Kuhen,R.Moody are the script writers for the two. Of course this all depends on them showing up to debate anyone.

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Edward44

May-31-13 8:25 PM

There will be no debate with Sullie and Leetz. They will be no-shows at the political forums you can almost bet. They have nothing but hate and discontent, with a side order of no taxes, no matter what. Not this time boys. I honestly think if Sullivan had be a solo act, he might have actually got something done. But, having said that, he was not, and has been saddeled with the legacy of Pete, Bill, "hello" Eric and the little King who wasn't. And still has to contend with loose cannon Chris. Onlythetruth has it right, they have the right to speak. but it doesn't mean people with any notion of reality are going to listen. It is like a dog barking in the night, incessant and annoying, but totally meaningless. Show up at the forums put on by groups this season, and prove me wrong. Maybe they should send Lightswitch in their stead.

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netransplant

May-31-13 8:35 PM

Thanks E, the service at Coral Ridge was what this day is about. On another note I noticed the absence of the tee party cronies, who seem not to show unless they are the spotlight. And sully is the poster child for all hypocrites, just look at the tolerance he had with Deile calling individual councilmen names (Lenny) but his treatment of Ms Leathers when he failed to follow her logic on the effect on others taxes when zoning changes are done enmass.

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JulieStevens

May-31-13 10:09 PM

I'm a little confused. You think American soldiers died to "gain us freedom?" Did you miss the last couple wars? “Peaceful elections or debates?” Where were you last fall?

And the sins of those with whom you disagree, those annoying “disgruntled citizens.” They are Americans just like you, with the right to express themselves, no matter how much you disagree with them. The bullies sticking their noses in council members’ business? Shame, shame, shame on those shameless folks! And those nervy enough to try to “move their agenda?” What was that “gain us freedom” stuff about? Or was that just for you and yours?

This is America. We all have the right to our opinion and the right to express it. Assertions such as yours concerning the meaning of some silly slogan are what are dangerous.

I'm curious - what does "APR" mean?

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bobbie

Jun-01-13 12:37 AM

Something is so wrong here, Ms. Bador tried to write a nice letter about our freedom of speech and someone turned it into an attack on our military as if they have fought in vain... for naught. Juliestevens, I hope no enlisted person ever sees your comments. Maybe you don't agree with the recent wars, as many didn't agree with our boys going to Nam, but, we still thank them from the deepest parts of our hearts for going there. And it all does mean freedom for us, ALL OF US. So quit being so snarky with that freedom, beyache.

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certainsmile

Jun-01-13 8:06 AM

E, since you quoted the dictionary definition you needed to look at all acceptable definitions. Definition of CALL TO ARMS. 1: a summons to engage in active hostilities 2: a summons, invitation, or appeal to undertake a particular course of action <a political call to arms> Of course you are only interested in what serves your point of view.

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Eileyn

Jun-01-13 8:19 AM

I grow ever weary of the mindset and mentality of my neighbors here in Cape Coral no sense in debating with folks who are dead set on being myopic. I am against tyranny of any kind. I'm against the use of violence or threats, and making things personal for personal gain. In fact I'm not unlike "you" in many ways, and I'm "like" you in others. I just find it repulsive to bring up marital issues in political debate. The use of infants (remember the baby and the beer photo), threats, hoping people get cancer and die (and telling them that) telling people in public forums they are going to stick voodoo dolls in city council. Seriously? Is THIS the America you want to see? I sure don't. And as for who I saw and didn't see at the Memorial Day event, I saw Americans and we need to remember while we have differences we are all UNITED and should act as such. Not try to tear each other down and make things personal.

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Eileyn

Jun-01-13 8:24 AM

Ms. Stevens, there is no way to answer you privately, and my accreditation bears no meaning to the topic. Should you really wish to know what APR is, I'm on linkedin**** or you can Google (APR-Public Relations)

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JJSully

Jun-01-13 8:34 AM

I sandy and OnlytheTruth have a limited understanding of individual rights. I wonder how large a city salary you take down? Or are you a drop baby or perhaps just that monthly kiss in the mail. If you were the one footing the bill for the unions you may have a different opinion. I think that there are not enough union and city worker votes after the next election. After that we will be able to fire elmer fudd and the clown on the end. Final piece will be sending Szerlag back to Tax and Spent Michigan. So vile ? yep, so is wasting my tax dollars and asking for more.

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JJSully

Jun-01-13 8:43 AM

The personal lives of council members is not our business, unless it is illegal activity. In the case of McClain my issue with him is his holier than thou attitude. Also his name calling and foul mouth have no place in public debate. If you support this person I have to question your motives. This city will be much better off with this person off council. He is unprofessional and an embrassment.

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onlythetruth

Jun-01-13 8:52 AM

Switchy, I remember all too well. When the Mayor was running he and his group often wore identifying shirts in unison in chambers, when his group took power, they banned them. He railed against members of council, now you can't do that, he allowed his followers more time at the podium during the reign of the Fab 5, and shut down those opposed in quick fashion. You let me know when you want a history lesson.

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LynnRosko

Jun-01-13 10:11 AM

Julie APR actually means a pain in the rear and is so applicable to Eileyn Sobeck-Bador. She is one of the more nastier posters on this website. If you do not have the same views as hers she flips on you and posts the nastiest comments.

She is being totally political to support her narrow minded views as expressed on her Facebook page and to support those people that she wants to win office here in Cape Coral. She does not know if she should **** or go blind with all the bad news coming out on her supported Council members!

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jcmckayfl

Jun-01-13 10:48 AM

Wow Lynn, aren't you the pot calling the kettle black! You must have been looking in the mirror when you wrote "one of the more nastier posters on this website".

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lightswitch

Jun-01-13 2:03 PM

5.6% increase in property value equates to HOW MUCH MORE TAX DOLLARS FOR THE BUDGET?

Already baked in a 7% tax on 50,000 plus residential accounts and 13,000 plus business accounts.

Covering 60% to 75% fire budget with fire assessment TAX which will get hashed out Monday June 3rd. That frees up 20 million plus alone and re-taxes the amount separately with charge of storm water and trash pickup. Non Advalorem Tax if you will. Homeowners and the specialty store businesses of Cape Coral are in for a bug big hurt starting October 2013-2014!!!! Business owners and home owners BEWARE!

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Lolita

Jun-01-13 2:14 PM

Just returned from the Mid West where the citizens there are helping each other recover, providing help and assistance, but most of all just being grateful for having survived as they await more devastation coming their way....and I return to the same hateful comments and poking at each other and crabbing. Great to be back with what I thought were civilized people. Take a deep breath people. We could be in the same misery as the Midwest and I hope we can work together if that happens to us.

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1sandy

Jun-01-13 2:54 PM

Once again, the meanness and vile rhetoric is rearing its ugly head back there in the Cape. One must wonder why. It is this one person's opinion that there are too many with nothing better to do, no real life responsibilities anymore, so the favorite past time is character assassination, lying and dirty politics. I for the life of me can't believe anyone would want to run for office in the Cape. The pay is ridiculous, to a point that only retirees and bustouts, with no other decent income would even think of it. Yet, we expect Steve Forbes like people, to emerge as candidates and solve the City's problems. Bwahahaha! Every 24 months the residents of the Cape must go through another round of embarrassing mud slinging, so it is no wonder that hardly anyone votes in that town anymore. Nobody freaking cares except for a handful people intent on either moving the Cape forward or the RAG's, (Sullivan & Leetz)who want the Cape to stand still. And the struggle continues.

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